Veteran's Day / Remembrance Day

[techtrenton]

This has nothing to do with the politicians. This is about the troops who have served and are serving our nations.

I would like to wish you a special Veteran's Day for our current and former American troops and a special Remembrance Day for our current and former British, Australian, and Canadian troops.

You and your families are in my thoughts and prayers. Many people don't think about the difficulties and struggles the families must go through raising their children on their own while the husbands and wives are serving in harm's way.

If you have served or are serving in the military and would like to let us know, please let us know what service you were in, no matter what nation.

[TheEmperor]

We Will Remember Them

[techtrenton]

Since today is Veterans' Day in the UK, I want to wish a special Veterans' Day to AppoW anker and our other British soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines. Thank you for your service to your country.

[alek95]

just noone thinks what good did ey bring to ur nation and the world,the truth is no good only invane loosing lives and each life lost brings a lot of money to the ppl bihing the curtin.Hundreats and hundreat US soldiers dided and killed thousands and thousands innucent ppl.US came intu thir contury,turned it intu hell...l
pacific,vietnam,golf,iraq ,iran,balkan... all this wars ware started,provoced by US.
but still less americans,brithans and soldiers from othere US surving ****uryes there are the better world is and less reppresion to free world there is.

[jokosr]

Vets day in the Usa is in Nov.....I was in the US Air Force 1979-1984..Special ops and a weather squadron...as a engine mechanic on ac 130e and h models gunships and wc 130 h weather recon...I know we have more vets around..I know rgking is one...I thank all vets past and present for there duty they done..THANK YOU !!

[iverson3]

just noone thinks what good did ey bring to ur nation and the world,the truth is no good only invane loosing lives and each life lost brings a lot of money to the ppl bihing the curtin.Hundreats and hundreat US soldiers dided and killed thousands and thousands innucent ppl.US came intu thir contury,turned it intu hell...l
pacific,vietnam,golf,iraq ,iran,balkan... all this wars ware started,provoced by US.
but still less americans,brithans and soldiers from othere US surving ****uryes there are the better world is and less reppresion to free world there is.

youre telling me that north vietnam attack south vietnam was started by America, NO

American did not start those wars. America started the Iraq war and the Revolutionary War.


Thank you veterans for all that youve done!!!

[techtrenton]

Vets day in the Usa is in Nov.....I was in the US Air Force 1979-1984..Special ops and a weather squadron...as a engine mechanic on ac 130e and h models gunships and wc 130 h weather recon...I know we have more vets around..I know rgking is one...I thank all vets past and present for there duty they day..THANK YOU !!

Thank you jokosr. I can think of one other player on here who served his country in three conflicts. I won't call out his name because I know he is a modest and humble member. I wll say "Thank you Specialist or Corporal (if you message me, I will change it to the correct one)." and

"Rangers lead the way"

[alek95]

thank u vest vets for making this world much worse place.

edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4x7G_AOL8k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZYh5IFUqmw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yisrC10tXOY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8-A8TpZqVk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNke0GGjkOo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDQNeIumhf8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dXAnxhb66I

this u see here is only a bit of real footinge of the true horrors of what US did,cuz noone wants to footograph markets full of ppl theat ware bombed by cluster bombs,marins massacring...

And ur glorius soldiers :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsO84nmeeSk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQSWHSzkwmY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jlbAEl_dRg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygOnnqnUGYk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_rxDVkWWNI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05O-K_VEauk&feature=related

I saw meny more vids of retarded US troops e.g. humwe on Iraq streets slamming intu othere cars,driving intu opposite track...

[jokosr]

thank u vest vets for making this world much worse place.
I saw meny more vids of retarded US troops e.g. humwe on Iraq streets slamming intu othere cars,driving intu opposite track...

lets talk about retarted serbia...

As Serbia challenges the might of the West, many Serbs boast that their history proves that despite the imbalance in firepower, they will never be vanquished. The trouble is that the version of the past recounted in Belgrade does not stand up to scrutiny. Serbia is not only fighting NATO, it is also at war with history.

The passion and apparent expertise with which so many Serbs talk so often and at such length about their country and its heroic past conceal a depressing lack of balance and understanding. Opinions are almost invariably based on prejudice and conditioning. From the infamous 1389 battle of Kosovo to the events of this century, history and myth have been intertwined into a quasi-religious national creed. Anyone who questions the articles of faith is branded a heretic.

According to the Kosovo legend, the Serbian leader, Prince Lazar, was offered on the eve of battle a choice between a kingdom on earth or in heaven. Vowing that “It is better to die in battle than to live in shame,” he chose the other world, and was duly killed the following day in what is commemorated as a glorious defeat ending the medieval Serbian empire and ushering in nearly five centuries of darkness under alien, Ottoman rule.

And indeed, a battle did take place on St. Vitus's day in 1389 in Kosovo Polje, the field of the blackbird, in which both Prince Lazar and Sultan Murat, the Ottoman leader, were killed. That much is clear. However, almost every other aspect of the battle—including the result itself—remains a mystery.

Based on the historical evidence, both the Serbian and the Ottoman armies were probably multinational forces. Indeed, it is likely that most of the Christian peoples of the Balkans, including the Albanians, contributed troops to the Serbian cause and that Serbs and Albanians fought on both sides.

Concerning the outcome, it seems that the battle was not as decisive as it has been portrayed. The result was more a draw than an Ottoman victory, since the Turkish forces subsequently withdrew from the region. The Serbian empire itself had disintegrated some 30 years earlier, though independent statehood remained for another 70 years.

Historical myths are by no means exclusive to Serbs, of course, nor are they necessarily harmful. Indeed, most societies draw strength from legends—whether Arthurian or about Washington and a cherry tree—which, if critically examined, are historically unsound. The difference with the Kosovo covenant, however, is that it has been abused to inculcate a sense of victimisation in Serbs which has blinded them to the plight of other peoples in the Balkans.

The deadly Greater Serbian agenda for the late 20th century grew out of the thinking and writing of Dobrica Cosic, one of Serbia's most distinguished novelists, a writer of popular, historical epics.

Cosic had been a partisan during the Second World War and a friend of Tito's for more than 20 years, yet he could not come to terms with Tito's attempts to emancipate Yugoslavia's Albanians and was purged for nationalism in 1968. In his frustration after his fall from grace, Cosic developed a complex and paradoxical theory of Serb national persecution. Over two decades, this evolved into the Greater Serbian program which Slobodan Milosevic first hijacked and then pursued.

The Serb national psyche which has so revolted the world since 1991 is thus not the product of centuries of historical evolution, but has been deliberately manufactured and intensively cultivated by the Serbian media since Milosevic's arrival in power in 1987.

Myth, fantasy, half-truths and brazen lies have been packaged each night into television news. The conspiracy theory dreamed up by frustrated nationalists such as Cosic in the late 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s became the literal truth.

Every conceivable event from Serb history was dredged up and distorted to feed the persecution complex of ordinary people who, at a time of collapsing living standards, were gradually taken in by the barrage of xenophobia. The atmosphere was so heated and the campaign so all-encompassing that people lost touch with reality.

According to the new orthodoxy, Serbs were victims exploited by and in danger from Yugoslavia's other peoples. While they had made huge sacrifices in blood to create Yugoslavia and had been victorious in war, they had allegedly been cheated in peace and thus divided between several republics in Tito's decentralised state.

Like any conspiracy theory, there is a kernel of truth in the new Serb orthodoxy. But it is a very small kernel.

Consider, for example, relations between Serbs and Croats. While contemporary propagandists (on both sides) claim that these peoples have been at each others' throats since time immemorial, Serb-Croat rivalry is actually a 20th century phenomenon. In the 19th century, Croat nationalists, who were preoccupied with a struggle against Austrians and Hungarians, had actually been great admirers of Serbia and the keenest advocates of a Yugoslav state. And the ruling party in the Croatian parliament in 1914 which voted to go to war with Serbia was the Serb-Croat Coalition.

And then there is the Second World War. For Serbs, this conflict is the ultimate proof that they have a near monopoly on suffering and can therefore do no wrong. After all, they will tell you that they fought together with the Allies against the Nazis and suffered great casualties. But is this really an accurate picture of what actually happened?

To a large extent Second World War in Yugoslavia was several civil wars which had little to do with the world war raging outside the country. All groups, with the exception of the Slovenes, fought against Serbs, though not in unison, while extreme nationalists on all sides were able to indulge their wildest fantasies.

The backbone of Tito's partisan army initially consisted largely of Serbs escaping Ustasa atrocities in Croatia and Bosnia, but not of Serbs from Serbia proper. Apart from an immediate uprising in 1941, which was savagely put down, Serbia remained more or less quiet until close to the end of the war.

Hitler installed a Quisling leader, Gen. Milan Nedic, who was loyal to the Nazis. In the absence of fighting, Nedic was able to wipe out Serbia's Jewish community under German supervision, more efficiently than the Ustasas could wipe out the Jews of Croatia and Bosnia. Nevertheless, Serb propagandists in the 1990s did not hesitate to claim a special affinity between Serbs and Jews.

The issue of war dead has also been seriously distorted. The official number of Yugoslavs who died fighting against the Axis powers was 1.7 million. The figure was only a rough calculation arrived at immediately after the war for reparations and propaganda purposes. Tito aimed both to maximise war compensation from Germany and to demonstrate to the world the scale of Yugoslavia's heroism and suffering.

But in Serb nationalist circles, operating on the principle “the more the better”, estimates of Serb dead extend to absurd levels—sometimes upwards of 700,000 at the notorious Jasenovac concentration camp alone.

During the 1980s, however, independent research into the question by two men, Bogoljub Kocovic, an emigre Serb, and Vladimir Zerjavic, a Croat, produced very similar results. Both investigations were based not on body counts or survivors' recollections but on computer analysis of census returns and demographic indices. According to Kocovic, whose figures are marginally higher than those of Zerjavic, a total of about 1,014,000, or 6.4 per cent of Yugoslavia's 1941 population, died during or in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War on all sides. According to their findings, in absolute terms, Serbs were the biggest losers, with 487,000 dead. The figures are shocking—and numbers alone cannot adequately convey the horrors. But mercifully they are well below the official number, and certainly those of the most extreme nationalists.

Yugoslavia's contribution to the overall Allied effort has also been greatly exaggerated, first by the victors themselves and more recently by statesmen wishing to justify a policy of non-intervention in the present conflict.

Given the extent and the chaos of Yugoslavia's own civil wars, Germany never needed to commit large numbers of troops. The only time when significant numbers of German troops were in Yugoslavia was during the initial 12-day invasion in 1941 and in 1944 when units stationed in Greece retreated across the country. Otherwise, Germany relied on its allies, the Italians, Hungarians and Bulgarians, and on local collaborators to keep Yugoslavia under control. The fighting itself took place largely in Bosnia.

No matter what aspect of Serbian history one cares to examine, the official version emanating from Belgrade appears to be at odds with the facts. What is especially depressing is that not so long ago, before Milosevic's emergence, Serbia was, in many way, the most liberal and progressive of Yugoslavia's republics. The Serbian media were remarkably open by the standards of eastern Europe and political opposition was tolerated, if not encouraged.

Looking back further in Serbian history it is possible to interpret many events in a very different manner and even to highlight periods of enlightenment and cooperation between Serb and non-Serb. Whatever the results of the NATO campaign, Serbia's future may ultimately depend above all on its war with its own history.

we are not talking about counties..we are talking about thanking the people who have servered there country liking it or not..people are force too serve there country at times.....

[piggdawg]

I saw meny more vids of retarded US troops e.g. humwe on Iraq streets slamming intu othere cars,driving intu opposite track...
ahhhhhhhhhh.....so you took what videos you could find on youtube and now feel you expert enough to condemn US soldiers? i am sure that you looked to find videos from both perspectives so that you could get a fair and unbiased view on things. or did you just happen to find videos that supported your preconceived notions and post those?

and someone from Serbia knocking the US? maybe you better make sure your beloved country has no skeletons in it's own closet before you start going after our country. oh, but that's right, y'all receive financial aid from us ;nopom


and Serbia is so great that in just 2/08 an international warning was issued about tourists traveling to Serbia because of extensive violence. I know our country has it's share of violence, but maybe before you start being so judgmental you should look and see what your own country is capable of with regards to violence, and it appears they have been doing it much longer than the USA has even been around

[iverson3]

Youve got to be kidding me Alek. Thats all propoganda.


Lets get some proven facts here

Pacific War- Part of World War 2 (kinda) started by Japan

Vietnam War- Started by North Vietnam invading South Vietnam and trying to turn the country communist, of which they succeded because they pulled out to early (dont tell me I dont know what it was like to have someone over there, my grandfather served over there without my mom and grandmother knowing.) and that is the reason they shouldnt pull out of Iraq because 10's of thousands of people will have died in vain.

Golf War- I think that was what happened between Rocco Mediate and Tiger Woods at the US Open.:D:D:D
I believe you meant the Gulf War. Started by Iraq and the UN not the US, in which the UK and US where commanding forces.

Iraq War - One of the few wars that the US actually started.

Iran War- No such thing, there was an Iran-Iraq war but that did not involve the US, you should do some research before throwing out random countries.

Balkan War- Again had nothing to do with the US a conflict between Bulgaria, Greece, Serbia and Montenagro, against the Ottoman Empire.


Now for some Serbian wrongdoings, since you had all your facts wrong, maybe you dont know your countries history.

Kosovo Wars - Started by Serbia

So unless you have something else to say, i think you should get your facts right, and stop making the US some Evil Empire. Stop condemning the US troops who have lost there lives trying to defend there country and the war.

[alek95]

heheheheehheee I wont read ur posts cuz I know u dont have enyhting smart to say...

EDIT: soon we wont be able to do enything than to sit and pray for God to come and punish saton's surpthants.

[iverson3]

heheheheehheee I wont read ur posts cuz I know u dont have enyhting smart to say...

Ya that just shows how politicly ignorant you are, and i know you read my post and you dont want to look like an idiot posting anything "smart"

[iverson3]

EDIT: soon we wont be able to do enything than to sit and pray for God to come and punish saton's surpthants.

So now your calling US soldiers Satan's Serpents (learn how to spell). Im sure you dont know what your are talking about. I cannot believe that your are now going to insult people who died defending there country. That is the lowest thing i have ever heard:confused: You deserve nothing if your gonna say something like this. Id like to see you go into war and see things that no one should ever have to see.

[techtrenton]

Hey folks, let's just step back for a minute. Even though alex is from Serbia, he does have the right to free speech. alex comes from a part of Serbia that was accidentally bombed by NATO cluster bombs during the Kosovo war. I don't know whether he or any of his family was affected by this, but I think I could understand some of his hatred.

Alex, let me remind you of an important date - April 6, 1941. On that date, your beloved country was attacked on all sides by the Axis powers. Take a moment and remember the Partizani, supported by Allied forces, that helped your country out. And remember Jasenovac, Логор Јасеновац / Logor Jasenovac. So when you think it is funny and cute to laugh at or riducle our troops, look in your own history.

I have written to you about this and I hope you have responded to me by the time I post this. Before you call our troops murders, idiots, and baffoons, remember that 5 clips ( I know there are more than that) posted on the Internet does not reflect the whole nation or its military. Our troops are dancing or singing? Well God bless them. Considering the stress that troops aged from 18 to 24 are under, I am glad that in their down time they can relax and have some fun.

[jokosr]

Hey folks, let's just step back for a minute. Even though alex is from Serbia, he does have the right to free speech. alex comes from a part of Serbia that was accidentally bombed by NATO cluster bombs during the Kosovo war. I don't know whether he or any of his family was affected by this, but I think I could understand some of his hatred.


no this is gewar forums...you dont have all that fredom of speech, we dont get too call people names or other things on these forums and post things that are off topic...

[alek95]

Hey folks, let's just step back for a minute. Even though alex is from Serbia, he does have the right to free speech. alex comes from a part of Serbia that was accidentally bombed by NATO cluster bombs during the Kosovo war. I don't know whether he or any of his family was affected by this, but I think I could understand some of his hatred.

Alex, let me remind you of an important date - April 6, 1941. On that date, your beloved country was attacked on all sides by the Axis powers. Take a moment and remember the Partizani, supported by Allied forces, that helped your country out. And remember Jasenovac, Логор Јасеновац / Logor Jasenovac. So when you think it is funny and cute to laugh at or riducle our troops, look in your own history.

I have written to you about this and I hope you have responded to me by the time I post this. Before you call our troops murders, idiots, and baffoons, remember that 5 clips ( I know there are more than that) posted on the Internet does not reflect the whole nation or its military. Our troops are ancing or singing? Well God bless them. Considering the stress that troops aged from 18 to 24 are under, I am glad that in their down time they can relax and have some fun.


"alex comes from a part of Serbia that was accidentally bombed by NATO cluster bombs during the Kosovo war"

lol,where u heard theat???
theat's same like telling I put out a gun filled it with bullets got to the centre and started shooting ppl in head.
and meiby u heard ey say colateral dmg,but there are videos of NATO commaneirs clearly saying theat targets ware civilian and militery,
but bombing of my contury is nothing comperimg of what Vietnamise,Iraqy ppl hade.


"Alex, let me remind you of an important date - April 6, 1941. On that date, your beloved country was attacked on all sides by the Axis powers. Take a moment and remember the Partizani, supported by Allied forces, that helped your country out. And remember Jasenovac, Логор Јасеновац / Logor Jasenovac. So when you think it is funny and cute to laugh at or riducle our troops, look in your own history.
"

Yea in the morrning 6th of April my contry was bombed by Hitler,and my city was bombed 8th of April and evry ear theat date nere my building in old graveyard ppl theat lived than gathere with priest and rimember theat horrable day.
Than cuz our King died in France 1938 I think while on negotiations on how to stop Germany he was killed and my ppl didnt have eny clear leadder so King's man (chetnici) surendered to Hitler,and cuz ey surendered to him ey needed to surve him as happned.But there ware Partizans led by TITO theat foght in mountains and slowly but surly weekening Hitler's army,as only big trubbles ey hade over whole war was with Brithans,Russians and Partizans,and WEST did help as as IN WW1,but ey did us harm more than ey helped us,theay bombed my contury more than 50x in WW2 and we didnt needed theair help and theay bombed even hospitals full of civilinas.And in theat time my ppl used to say "GOD SAVE US FROM OUR ALLIES,AND WE WILL SAVE OUR SELFS AGAINS OUR ENEMYS".
Yea and they saved some of my ppl in places like Jasenovac,and we are thanked to theam for theat,but theat is almost nothing to bad ey bringed to my ppl and still bringing it on Kosovo.


"I have written to you about this and I hope you have responded to me by the time I post this. Before you call our troops murders, idiots, and baffoons, remember that 5 clips ( I know there are more than that) posted on the Internet does not reflect the whole nation or its military. Our troops are ancing or singing? Well God bless them. Considering the stress that troops aged from 18 to 24 are under, I am glad that in their down time they can relax and have some fun"

I responeded.
NO VIDEO OR FOOTIGE CAN DISCRIBE A WHOLE NATION,only true exp.
Yea and what ware they sinigng in vid ey made on Kosovo ???
there is a paer ey say 'Milosevic u st*** son of a """"h" and theay dont even know who Milosevic is.

God bless em??? Bless em for killing how know hos meny innucent ppl,childern and I heard UN troops even raped ppl in conturys they ware.

And I dont like to tell 1 same thing over and over again just cuz some one stupid dont read it or dont get it.

EDIT: I know theat things we all learn in school are beeing smaller and smaller by the year,but still u shod learn and go to librarly take some history books.

I am sure u wont even read this post,or u will start than stop reading it cuz my wrighting is bad.

EDIT2 : Today is Vidovdan Serbian very mportant hollyday cuz today more than 600 years ago there ware Battle of Kosovo where all Searb man foght vs Turks to stop thier invasion of Balkan and Europe,and there are records theat we won battle,bouth leaders died there,but still we didnt have eny more ppl to defend contury so whan Murat was dieing he called for his soon to came and clame the contury as happened,and for 500 years my contury was over Turks.And still what West did to save us ??? Nothing.
And on this day Milosevic was tricked and captured and bringed on Hag prison where he was poisoned as obduction shown.

[iverson3]

Ok alek techtrenton (can i just call you tech) was trying to help people understand what position your in, but your just being a jerk about it, again people in the war are brave, i dont care if they make videos that get on youtube of them having fun. I think they should be able to do what they want in there time off. BTW you can not judge a nation on what a few people do. Or i would think that everyone in China is poor and works in rice fields, and that everyone in India work as telephone answerers for Dell or HP

[alek95]

Ok alek techtrenton (can i just call you tech) was trying to help people understand what position your in, but your just being a jerk about it, again people in the war are brave, i dont care if they make videos that get on youtube of them having fun. I think they should be able to do what they want in there time off. BTW you can not judge a nation on what a few people do. Or i would think that everyone in China is poor and works in rice fields, and that everyone in India work as telephone answerers for Dell or HP

heheheheheeeeheheheheheeee

[iverson3]

heheheheheeeeheheheheheeee

oh the serbian army having fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnJ7i0ur-QY

[Luke]

Jokosr is right. There is a freedom of speech here, but no insults on the main forum. That is because one insult provokes another, and there you go: another train wreck.

Plus it's not good for the image. First thing a new player sees, is people disrespecting eachother. Or a parent that checks if this site is moderated enough for his/her kid.

So if you want to say you don't agree with something, it should be fine as that's freedom of speech...but mind the way you are saying it. You can't be banned anymore ever for being rude or anything on the forums, but you can be muted.

I was also wondering if this thread isn't better for the VIP Lounge. It's a touchy subject. I know a lot can get really heated in discussions like this. But when you do get heated around here, do remember it's a remembrance day for those that died. And those people are still people, whether you agree with the cause or not. And most didn't have a choice either.

[iverson3]

I was also wondering if this thread isn't better for the VIP Lounge. It's a touchy subject. I know a lot can get really heated in discussions like this.

no dont do that i dont have permissions for the VIP Lounge

[alek95]

oh the serbian army having fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnJ7i0ur-QY


38sec?! it even isnt a song I didnt find it whole.
Theat are some 4 ppl doing dunno what for sure,and they are in militey uniformy in there own contury,and ey dont have to be slodiers at all they can buy theat uniform.

And why was this vid CUT ?!?!WHY ONLY 38 SEC?! This vid vas posted by some noone serb loving guy,witch cod meen theat this vid was cut to prevent ppl from seeing somthing...

[techtrenton]

Yes Luke. Please either close this thread or move it to VIP. Apparently, people can not obey rules set forth on this forum. Jokosr, I do not want you to think that I agree with what alex was saying. Even when I tried to defend his right to make a comment, he comes back and attacks me and continues to call our troops Satan's serpents and baby killers.

I will not defend anyone who calls our troops or any troops baby killers. Yes, there are some bad seeds in all militaries, but you do not call a whole army baby killers because of a few idiots.

My uncle served 3 tours in Vietnam as a combat medic with the 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile) and was awarded a Purple Heart.

You insult our troops, you insult my family.

[alek95]

defending ur contury in othere half of world.wow

And we Serbs who defended our peopulation from being slaughtered in Croatia and Bosnia are now terrorists.
here is a chart for Americans :

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/central_balkan_pol_2003.jpg

[jokosr]

Yes Luke. Please either close this thread or move it to VIP. Apparently, people can not obey rules set forth on this forum. Jokosr, I do not want you to think that I agree with what alex was saying. Even when I tried to defend his right to make a comment, he comes back and attacks me and continues to call our troops Satan's serpents and baby killers.

I will not defend anyone who calls our troops or any troops baby killers. Yes, there are some bad seeds in all militaries, but you do not call a whole army baby killers because of a few idiots.

My uncle served 3 tours in Vietnam as a combat medic with the 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile) and was awarded a Purple Heart.

You insult our troops, you insult my family.
no..what you posted was ok..i have no problem with it..But we have too limit what we say here because you are not just talking too people in your own country, your talking too the world here..And some of us are hot heads and flame wars start...He doesnt seem too get this yet...

[Melek~Taus]

Wow, just read this train wreck. First off, my respects to the vets of past and present wars, no matter the nation or side. It's sad these threads take these turns.

So, to stop future flames on this. Let's say this. Not many people want to go to war. Not many want to die no matter what the reasons they are given. However, some people do because they think what they are doing is for a better good in the end. We should not judge those that lay their lives on the line because what they are doing may be bad in the end. ....Sorry, F-18 just flew over (beatiful site)...now, as I was saying, some people are bad and that should not interfer with those that do good. Never blur those attributes. People complain about the military all the time, yet when it's needed these same people cry for help. Both my grandparents were in WW2. One in for Canada, and the other under Italy. I appreciate them both because despite not wanting to go to war they did, because one beleived in the cause, the other was forced to or die(Italy). I respect both for the physical and mental powers each member needs to do this. While I sit and write my respects and read what some people so easily write. I ask, would they stand up for what they believed is right? It takes a big man to write against remembering vets, it takes an even bigger man to be one.

To all members of military past and present....Thanks for doing what you believed to be the right thing.

:)

[helo]

Lets get some proven facts here

Pacific War- Part of World War 2 (kinda) started by Japan


Pearl Harbor, while yes Japan did bomb it, we cut off oil supplies to japan and in retaliation they bombed Pearl Harbor.


Vietnam War- Started by North Vietnam invading South Vietnam and trying to turn the country communist, of which they succeded because they pulled out to early (dont tell me I dont know what it was like to have someone over there, my grandfather served over there without my mom and grandmother knowing.) and that is the reason they shouldnt pull out of Iraq because 10's of thousands of people will have died in vain.

If you look at it the way that you say, we should've never been there to begin with. Recent evidence has surfaced to state that the Gulf of Tonkin incident never occurred. Besides that, it is not our country and our troops shouldn't have died for theirs.



I believe you meant the Gulf War. Started by Iraq and the UN not the US, in which the UK and US where commanding forces.

Iraq War - One of the few wars that the US actually started.

Iran War- No such thing, there was an Iran-Iraq war but that did not involve the US, you should do some research before throwing out random countries.

It's a little known fact that Jimmy Carter sent Henry Kissenger over to several of all these Countries in the Middle east, offering them a deal to let US Oil companies in and make them billions. There was a catch however. Their oil had to be dominated in the US currency, and a portion of their profits had to be invested in varies US Treasury Bonds and securities.

There were two countries that didn't agree to doing this. Can you guess which of them it was?

Think about what is happening, and why oil is continually sky rocketing. If you haven't figured out what I'm writing about, I'll explain it.

US Treasury Bonds and securities are an investment into the National Debt. Hence forth, these countries are willfully making a contribution to get our country out of its 9 trillion dollar debt.

Over the past few years, the US Federal Reserve has printed over 4 trillion dollars in new currency to fund this war. This has caused a small hyper inflation, which could lead the country to a dark path. Think about that when a gallon of milk costs $10 and a gallon of petrol costs you $7-$8.


So unless you have something else to say, i think you should get your facts right, and stop making the US some Evil Empire. Stop condemning the US troops who have lost there lives trying to defend there country and the war.

While I will never condemn the US Troops, I will condemn the government for placing our troops in a non-just war. We need to un-occupy every country our troops are in and bring them home. Let other countries worry about their own problems while we worry of our own.

I hope that my message will atleast open your eyes a little, my friends.

[jokosr]

While I will never condemn the US Troops, I will condemn the government for place our troops in a non-just war. We need to un-occupy every country our troops are in and bring them home. Let other countries worry about their own problems while we worry of our own.

I hope that my message will atleast open your eyes a little, my friends.

I like this idea...I also would like the usa to cut off all aid to countries that dont give a crap about the usa..Iam tired of the usa helping these people..Its time we invest in OUR country and let these other countries find some other means to suck money out of a country..

[piggdawg]

While I will never condemn the US Troops, I will condemn the government for placing our troops in a non-just war. We need to un-occupy every country our troops are in and bring them home. Let other countries worry about their own problems while we worry of our own.

helo---i tend to agree with several of your political posts, but this one i cannot.

the thought of pulling out all of our troops from all other countries would involve a utopian world in which no 2 countries need to interact on a more involved basis.

there are times that is necessary for our country to be involved, much like there are times for different countries to be involved in other areas as well. this does not mean that we need to have troops in every conflict, but to say we need to pull out of all countries is idealistic, unrealistic, and in some ways a reckless approach to international relations. like the old saying..........dont throw out the baby with the bath-water


I like this idea...I also would like the usa to cut off all aid to countries that dont give a crap about the usa..Iam tired of the usa helping these people..Its time we invest in OUR country and let these other countries find some other means to suck money out of a country..Nice post help
i do, however, agree with this post

[helo]

helo---i tend to agree with several of your political posts, but this one i cannot.

the thought of pulling out all of our troops from all other countries would involve a utopian world in which no 2 countries need to interact on a more involved basis.

there are times that is necessary for our country to be involved, much like there are times for different countries to be involved in other areas as well. this does not mean that we need to have troops in every conflict, but to say we need to pull out of all countries is idealistic, unrealistic, and in some ways a reckless approach to international relations. like the old saying..........dont throw out the baby with the bath-water



i do, however, agree with this post
How so? Tell me what is the purpose of the united states having military bases in 130 countries? Is that just, no it is not. It is not our place to be. While I can understand helping out allies in situations, 39th Parallel, I do not see why America needs such a large force to protect another country while their own citizens are fully capable of protecting their own borders. Hell, if it is like it is now, we ought to make those countries send troops here to guard OUR borders. Idealistic, yes. Unrealistic utopian? No. We need to mind our own business and NOT be the policemen of the world. That is just how I feel. One of these days, America is going to hit one of these countries who'll make a work around with another to invade us and see how easy living is then.

[alek95]

yea,I agree with helo,but there is much more to add.


Pacific War- Part of World War 2 (kinda) started by Japan

Pacific war was provoced by US,US traded,suppled and helped China and othere conturyes theat ware Japan enemys.
And did u know theat J.W.Bush's grandfathere traded oil with NAZI germany in ww2 ??? IF there wasn't his most if not all of bombings of England wodnt be possible.

Vietnam War- Started by North Vietnam invading South Vietnam and trying to turn the country communist, of which they succeded because they pulled out to early (dont tell me I dont know what it was like to have someone over there, my grandfather served over there without my mom and grandmother knowing.) and that is the reason they shouldnt pull out of Iraq because 10's of thousands of people will have died in vain

If you look at it the way that you say, we should've never been there to begin with. Recent evidence has surfaced to state that the Gulf of Tonkin incident never occurred. Besides that, it is not our country and our troops shouldn't have died for theirs.


yea,US shod never been there.
3 000 000 VIETNAMISE DEAD!!! innucent civilians BURNED!! 58 000 US DEAD !!!
and did enyone punished US for this ?!?!?!??!
f****ing holocaust.

I believe you meant the Gulf War. Started by Iraq and the UN not the US, in which the UK and US where commanding forces.

Iraq War - One of the few wars that the US actually started.

Iran War- No such thing, there was an Iran-Iraq war but that did not involve the US, you should do some research before throwing out random countries.


yea I ment whole mid-east.

Gulf war- Iraq vs 34 nations

Iraq attacked kuwait cuz of oil,and than Iraq was attacked by US and it's followers.
And ey didnt need to go there,they only made things worse and much more victims.

Iraq War- this was started by US,and it never hade to happen.
9/11- staged by US,US goverment slammed 2 planes intu 2 WTC's.I watched it live and I saw videos later,and there is no chance plane cod distory a building and in vid u can see expoliives going of sincronized,like controled demolition.And what about WTC6,nothing hit it but it still colapsed cuz of fire,I never heard concrete building can colapse cuz of fire.

And for 9/11 they blamed al-qaida and Bin Laden.
Bin Laden- Former CIA agent,Bush familyes and Osama Bin Laden fimiles knowed each othere and they are in very good realtins.U shod watch Alex-rising of martial state or zaitgeist...


It's a little known fact that Jimmy Carter sent Henry Kissenger over to several of all these Countries in the Middle east, offering them a deal to let US Oil companies in and make them billions. There was a catch however. Their oil had to be dominated in the US currency, and a portion of their profits had to be invested in varies US Treasury Bonds and securities.

There were two countries that didn't agree to doing this. Can you guess which of them it was?

Think about what is happening, and why oil is continually sky rocketing. If you haven't figured out what I'm writing about, I'll explain it.

US Treasury Bonds and securities are an investment into the National Debt. Hence forth, these countries are willfully making a contribution to get our country out of its 9 trillion dollar debt.

Over the past few years, the US Federal Reserve has printed over 4 trillion dollars in new currency to fund this war. This has caused a small hyper inflation, which could lead the country to a dark path. Think about that when a gallon of milk costs $10 and a gallon of petrol costs you $7-$8.



Tell me what is the purpose of the united states having military bases in 130 countries?

http://onenessreality.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/bush_-_evil_empire.jpg
http://www.bartcop.com/bfee_v.jpg
http://www.bartcop.com/spread-free-demo.jpg
see this site: http://www.bartcop.com/2045.htm


picture is worth a hundread words

u heard a thing : DEVIDE AND CONQUER ??? theat ye did to CCCP and former east block.

and Gorbachow w**** mark of the beast on his head,pacted with devil,hope he will burn in hell.Bush probably hase it on his a*s.

I do not see why America needs such a large force to protect another country while their own citizens are fully capable of protecting their own borders. Hell, if it is like it is now, we ought to make those countries send troops here to guard OUR borders. Idealistic, yes. Unrealistic utopian? No. We need to mind our own business and NOT be the policemen of the world. That is just how I feel. One of these days,

I agree

America is going to hit one of these countries who'll make a work around with another to invade us and see how easy living is then.

let's hope.
We just need to buy Russia and China more time,and let's hope noone of their leaders wold pact with devil like Gorbachow and Jelcinj did.

[jokosr]

mods...what the chance you move most of the talk on here too a different section and just leave the part where we are honoring vets...we are way way off topic right now..but a topic that should keep going that is being posted right now

[techtrenton]

mods...what the chance you move most of the talk on here too a different section and just leave the part where we are honoring vets...we are way way off topic right now..but a topic that should keep going that is being posted right now

I agree with you jokosr, but I am going to ask the thread to be closed. If people can not refrain from using curse words and taking threads off topic, I feel they need to be muted or banned. I will be darned if I try to defend someone who continues to insult my nation, my family, and my God. I have been a calm, patient person for so long on this game.

I think we can be mature and start another thread later in November in the VIP thread for mature and responsible players

MODERATORS, ADMINS, AND HIGHER UPS - CLOSE THIS THREAD

[Joedeuces124]

As requested -CLOSED-

[brobie]

Yeah! Closed!