The marketplace has recently been abused by some players. Therefor it is temporarely disabled until this is fixed.

Remember that abusing the marketplace on a large scale is considered the same as cheating. All logfiles are saved.

To stop market "abuse", geo transfers should be brung back. As carach said on another thread maybe bring back geo transfers just in a allaince.

I agree, some alliances have members, for example nds, who get zeroed and have no money to plant resources and don't like jeweling, the alliance members who fell bad and want to get them back on track donate to them, if we could use geo transfers then it could make the whole thing easier

To stop market "abuse", geo transfers should be brung back. As carach said on another thread maybe bring back geo transfers just in a allaince.
Agreed.
I dont have more to say but need to fill up 10 chars

To stop market "abuse", geo transfers should be brung back. As carach said on another thread maybe bring back geo transfers just in a allaince.

yay someone likes my alliance bank idea :D

we going to have a name and shame or?

And what would stop people from cheating again? As long as bank transfers were available, people would cheat. Some got really clever at creating fake accounts. So instead of fighting cheating, we'd create more.

In case you didn't know: there have been people with over 50 fake accounts. Atleast, one of the examples of someone that got caught/admitted it.

Transfers between alliance mates would work only if you kept the alliance structure the same all round, otherwise the penalty for leaving an alliance would need to be you lose all score infact prob everything.

Bank transfers were removed for pretty much the same reason that marketplace transfers were removed.

It is a shame but there is always a few who spoil a game for the majority. They will try to win at any cost and abuse whatever system is inplace for them.

Bank transfers had their problems too, this is why they were removed.

Please also remember we have but one coder right now, and he cannot do everything, I have no idea how big a job of coding it would be to make it so that transfers can only be made in alliances, but I am pretty certain it would not be a quick fix. To shut the marketplace down was the best fix for the time allowing.

Luke is right about the 50 accts as well, the only way to make it almost impossible to stop the farming of accounts is to close the marketplace and the banks down, perhaps only have uranium transfers.

I'm not a brilliant cheater at games(I mostly find out when some clever guys find ways), but even I know how to cheat on bank transfers within alliances.

Double post:What I want right now is more ways of earning geos. Through minigames for example. Make it fun to earn geos. Jewelling is for startup and emergency.

A lot know I'm working on other ways of 'earning' geos. But while doing that I'm also coding on army splitting and interception. And I gave myself a deadline that one of the 3 should be active by the end of this month.

So....if we have coders among the players here with too much free time that are willing to volunteer, all help is ofcourse most welcome.

*edit: i think this thread is sidestepping....it's about abusement of the market. About stopping cheaters. So what I meant with what I said is that we shouldn't create more holes for cheaters to abuse. I know some don't want to jewel and need help, but then there should be more ways for them to work for geos while having fun. Opening bank transfers will really make a lot of cheaters smile and clap their hands.

Bank Interest Rates are much higher now than ever before in the game:

The interest rate is 10% for the first 5000 Geos, 7.5% for the next 5000 Geos, 5% for the next 10000 Geos

This is to help those noobs or zeroed players increase their fortune fast again. There is no need for bank transfers, we have already tried that out for years and years.

The change to take away transfers was an excellent move that has:
1) increased fighting
2) made the game more strategic - as every member now must contribute for a clan to be successful - and stoped alliances from staying on top by having a few actives and many inactives feeding them funds...now other clans can enjoy fighting on the map that were disadvantaged before.

Look at how many small alliances that are fighting in this game at the moment and are able to hold their own for the first time.

zeroed NDs can gain absolutely nothing though w_african. so interest rates mean bugger all if they dont own a city.

not that i dont agree with u; just a little point there.

So donate .........

So donate .........

what a poor answer.

it is not a requirement to donate in this game. If ur suggestion is to force all players to donate to play then you might as well wave good bye to half the remaining playerbase.

I know how much you seem to love attacking me on these forums chum but there's more NDs than just me. Perhaps you could come up with something constructive for once?

..anyway.... as luke said; this is going the wrong way in discussion. its about cheating.

Observation not attack.
And your assumption it was based at you is as useful as your answer. I never demanded any one do anything. I observed if some one does not like the restrictions that there is a way to remove them.

Double post:What I want right now is more ways of earning geos. Through minigames for example. Make it fun to earn geos. Jewelling is for startup and emergency.

A lot know I'm working on other ways of 'earning' geos. But while doing that I'm also coding on army splitting and interception. And I gave myself a deadline that one of the 3 should be active by the end of this month.

.

WHOOOHOOOOO I CANT WAIT :)
no hassling the man while he is fixing things i want :furious

GO LUKE ;96 GO LUKE ;96

How about 'giving' each alliance a bank, players within the alliance can only donate to the banks that are set up. You will obviously have to bank to the one in your alliance but that can't be too hard? The bank will be handled by leadership of alliances and can donate to players in own alliance as they please...

Sounds like a mouth full but this is the only way I see transfers coming back, when it's set up in a way that it can't be abused at all

This is not aimed specifically at you Mari, this is at everyone who has mentioned any form of bank transfer at the moment :) I have included your quote as it was the last one on the thread ..

The problem with any form of bank transfer is it can be abused, now imagine this, and I can resolutely assure you this will happen.

You currently have an alliance of 20 players, 14 of which are inactive, only logging in to feed the other accts with resources and which then equate to geos.

So this leaves you with 6 active players.

With any form of monetry/resource transfer feature, which is only allowed in alliances. The 6 active players above will then form 6 seperate alliances and put into it each as many inactive farm accts as they can. They will to all intents and purposes be sub alliances, still work together, still fight together, still basically ruin the game for every other honest player.

The only way to stop it entirely is to take away the hand that feeds them. To remove the fact that they cannot then become bigger than every other player in the game.

How about 'giving' each alliance a bank, players within the alliance can only donate to the banks that are set up. You will obviously have to bank to the one in your alliance but that can't be too hard? The bank will be handled by leadership of alliances and can donate to players in own alliance as they please...

Sounds like a mouth full but this is the only way I see transfers coming back, when it's set up in a way that it can't be abused at all

I wasn't talking about bringing back bank transfers, but a bank within the alliance that players can use for extra funding. You know yourself that this worked great withing 3rd for many rounds.

I do however get that this can also be abused (if not set up correctly) and am not going to push the issue. It'll be 100% if I don't ever see bank transfers in the game again tbh :)

Unfortunately you are right it will be abused, we have some players who will go to extreme lengths to win. There really is no way to stop it, other than removing anything like that. Even Uranium on the Marketplace is a problem, because instead of transferring to use as geos, they will transfer to use as a commodity to do large amounts of damage.

Truly I think the only way to solve this is to make each player have to be self sufficient, more games for geos, more ways to make money to fight with and no way to transfer anything between accounts.

The fact the marketplace has had to be shut down will have been because every other avenue has been exhausted, Luke was so very much against having to go down that route.

We have jeweling so players can make their own geos and I think we will see a lot more games from now on so if players really wants to make geos they will have to start participating in games for geos more...

The only way the marketplace will work if there is a set rate for everyone that puts something on there... For example if you put something up you can't chose the price you want to sell it for because there is a set price for each resource high enough that it can't be abused (don't know if this is possible though). If this doesn't work then I can't see us having a marketplace at all.

Let me put it this way... everything that can be abused is only abuse long as only dishonest players use it.

Why not use the same policy as for scripts here? It is only bad as long as it's exclusive - if it is entirely open, it's a stragegic choice you either make or don't. Do you want an active alliance or one with only 2 players and 12 farmers? Entirely choice.

The only actual cheating involved here (in my eyes) is dupe accounts. And that is already taken care of...


On a little personal ;offtopic note: I am pretty sure I am not going to be back forever - this round has shown me everything I suspected since the ex-donatorgame went official the reset after I left. Gameplay has been diminished so much by stricter rules that a lot of the old fun stragegics no longer work. 3rd's and Misfits' strategies (nap everyone vs attack everyone) might be the only ones still fully working, and that is certainly not good. Anyway, what I wanted to say: bank transfers were one of the parts I missed (you probably all had banking plans back then), which is why we gambled on Christmas raise. That is fine as well, but not nearly as flexible. Disclaimer: this is not neccesarily the RED view /OffTopic

The only way the marketplace will work if there is a set rate for everyone that puts something on there... For example if you put something up you can't chose the price you want to sell it for because there is a set price for each resourceThat might actually bring back Stocks as well: buy for x+1%, sell for x-1%, x changes over time either using real market maths or randomly. I think randomly might be more fun, so you can acutally speculate if you buy now or maybe tomorrow and pay only half.

Remember that abusing the marketplace on a large scale is considered the same as cheating. All logfiles are saved.

So what is a large scale? Why is it now called cheating? We had discussions previously about the market and as far as I know it was never clearly said that resources must not be traded to transfer money. That's why I used it sometimes.

Depends of the scale. When it's clear that 'inactive' account(to use friendly words) only play to forward resources or geos, then I call it cheating. It doesn't have to be in the rules exactly described, as we have a rule for 'use your own wits' and it's a combination of other rules.

I'm not talking here about active players that forwarded resources to eachother. When a player used it to forward geos, it however was frowned upon. When we see some players getting extremely rich because dozens of accounts(mostly seen as inactive accounts) forward resources to them....well let's say they can't tell me they had no idea this would be illegal.

As for bank transfers....I can't promise anything...but I might be open for discussion of bringing it back for donators only. Would be a very useful donatorfunction. That way donators get the extra they are calling for(without it being an advantage to 'more geos'), and non-donators could get extra normal functions(like army splitting and interception for non-donators unlike the previous version of gewar)...and most important is that it's useless for cheaters to create accounts for geo-forwarding. They'd have to make all their multiple accounts a donator.
That is just a thought open for discussion.

Let me put it this way... everything that can be abused is only abuse long as only dishonest players use it.

Why not use the same policy as for scripts here? It is only bad as long as it's exclusive - if it is entirely open, it's a stragegic choice you either make or don't. Do you want an active alliance or one with only 2 players and 12 farmers? Entirely choice.

The only actual cheating involved here (in my eyes) is dupe accounts. And that is already taken care of...


On a little personal ;offtopic note: I am pretty sure I am not going to be back forever - this round has shown me everything I suspected since the ex-donatorgame went official the reset after I left. Gameplay has been diminished so much by stricter rules that a lot of the old fun stragegics no longer work. 3rd's and Misfits' strategies (nap everyone vs attack everyone) might be the only ones still fully working, and that is certainly not good. Anyway, what I wanted to say: bank transfers were one of the parts I missed (you probably all had banking plans back then), which is why we gambled on Christmas raise. That is fine as well, but not nearly as flexible. Disclaimer: this is not neccesarily the RED view /OffTopic

That might actually bring back Stocks as well: buy for x+1%, sell for x-1%, x changes over time either using real market maths or randomly. I think randomly might be more fun, so you can acutally speculate if you buy now or maybe tomorrow and pay only half.

well Martok....all I have to say is...yes, yes, yes and yes

just for the record. misfits is not napped with anyone at all :) so ill be assuming you were saying we were attacking ones.

on the topic, most complained when alliances were using to many famer accounts, or dupe accounts and all that stuff.
Now it is harder to do so, not impossible to, but harder to hide.
yes i miss being paid to move away by other alliances, and yes i miss being funded to attack, christ misfits had to change there whole game play when we come here to new rules.
but if you read above Luke stated THERE IS NO WAY TO BRING BACK BANK TRANSFERS AND KEEP AWAY CHEATERS AND FARMERS AT THE SAME TIME.
so now instead of giving geos to someone to defend there cities, u have to go there and defend someone yourself, and if i want to move out of area, i have to pay myself lolol

luke has brought back homebase move which all seem to be happy with (not all but cant keep all happy), and then in a month interception will return ( fantastic) then he will be working on something else coming back. and while he is doing that he is trying to get poker up and running for us to make geos too.
I am one of the moaners about boredom, but homebase is back and more is to come and luke has stated ideas for banking are welcome and he has his own ideas. SO IT NOT GONE FOREVER just a tricky one to work out and we have to wait for that.
SO I AM SHUTTING MY MOUTH FROM MOANING AND SITTIN BACK TO LOOK FORWARD TO LUKE LIVING OUT HIS NEW YEARS EVE GOAL OF BRINGING BACK WHAT WE MISS SO MUCH

ps luke i am a very happy girl now i not stuck in one place :) I CAN MOVE WHOOOHOOO. i feel like me again lolol

As for bank transfers....I can't promise anything...but I might be open for discussion of bringing it back for donators only. Would be a very useful donatorfunction. That way donators get the extra they are calling for(without it being an advantage to 'more geos'), and non-donators could get extra normal functions(like army splitting and interception for non-donators unlike the previous version of gewar)...and most important is that it's useless for cheaters to create accounts for geo-forwarding. They'd have to make all their multiple accounts a donator.
That is just a thought open for discussion.

I can't see this working tbh... Thinking back when we used to have bank transfers, there's so many inactive donators that didn't/couldn't play and they just gave away their geos to the more active fighters. You wont see new farmer accounts coz it's pretty stupid to donate only so you can send the cash you make on but with the existing donators we have I think we will still see loads of inactives that will just give away geos when they can't spend it themselves?
Just my 2 cents


As for your comment Martok, I think this is the first round where 3rd don't have any NAPs whatsoever :) With warhammer splitting we have just been having fun and fighting whoever and I love it lol

A lot of discussion that I guess I missed here. Let me see if I can add to this.

The marketplace.
Using the marketplace is one thing. Even using it with a friend to coordinate resource and/or geo shifting isn't really that bad. That strategy has been happening forever with very little issue. The problem has to do with Farming. Clear cut farming. Accounts that send all geos and resources to one or multiple accounts with no intention of playing. Those have started to show up and it's unfair to allow it to continue. Sure we could ban all of those players, but I think that's worse then just shutting down the market.

So using the marketplace to shift geos/resources = not cheating. Using farm accounts and involving the market as your avenue of exploitation...cheating. Farm accounts have always been cheating.

Why not just ban those accounts? If we have a way to stop the cheating and it only mildly affects game play...we take that option first.

Is the marketplace gone forever? Nope. It will be back. My time is freeing up and "fixing the marketplace" is #4 on my list.

Carach's Bank idea?
Yes I saw that. Yes it's a good idea. I have another idea that involves a percentage, controlled by the alliance leader, to go into a pool that can be sent to any member of the alliance. (ex: 5% of your daily goes into a bank and then the leader can send supporting geos to people in need).

Inter-Alliance Transfers?
Not really a good idea. Easily exploitable and it helps the large alliances a lot more then the small alliances. I prefer a "buddy list" of sorts. Where you can send transfers to up to 5 players. Not sure how to avoid exploiting that yet. Maybe do something like HB Moves where you can remove people from the list but it costs a decent amount to do so.

Hate to bring this back ip. But as designed game worked, till you got bank access with no value. Just sayin.

one of the changes that happened in the game, have taken the transfer in banks was the best. I hope luke able to get games for geos, I miss Dond.

I just thought about this, but I am not sure whether it would be a good solution:
How about a "money transfer fee", meaning, 5-10% of the sum you want to transfer is a fee, that is deducted, i.e. I transfer 1000 Geos to player B, but he only receives 900-950.
In order to prevent/limit abuse, I would propose something like:

first transfer in a week: 5-10% fee
second transfer in a week 10-15% fee
etc.

An extension to this could be: increase the fee only on transfers to a person that I have already made a transfer to.

Obvious questions: Are cheaters using farm accounts morons? do these players log in daily (or weekly? monthly? .. whatever) on the farm account and plant resources? or do they have a friend doing it occasionally? I know from experience that you can convince friends to plant, but getting them to be active is far harder, we all have successes and failures, my failures are sitting on 100K+ geo's banked and negative available funds for weeks at a time not gathering more resources to get them out of the hole because their mines all dried up lol.

But seriously, wouldn't it just make sense, and be less conspicuous, to play as the farm players? or are these players so desperate for self gratification that all successes (even success thats been fabricated on lies, cheating and deception) must be given as credit to the beneficiary?

Don't get me wrong, when I play single player games like GTA I memorize every cheat code there is, and run around with unlimited ammo, sweet cars, invincibility etc etc but in this game I could care less, I expect my opponent not to cheat, because its a global community, I enjoy banter with the people in my sights, sure sitting around with no cities suck, but eventually you figure out new strategies (someone mentioned that strategies are black or white now, I couldn't disagree more) to gain ground.

As for banks, geo transfers, market transfers etc, I've used the latter two, but wasn't ever in a banking alliance. Being able to get people up to a larger bank to receive enough interest to compete with other players (especially for late round joiners), helping out teamates that may not have the time to help as much as they'd like, or making use of stagnant geo's are all important issues, and can only add to the overall enjoyment of the game, but until we have a definitive way to prevent misuse, even if it means making certain records public, charging fee's, making the market more anonymous through posting delays, pricing constraints, general market bins etc.

Theres a lot of good ideas out there guys and girls, ideas held by players we often don't even hear from and the forum is the best place for them to be discussed. Keep encouraging friends to log in, and share opinions and use the geo's they've earned, no point planting if you won't be playing!

hi spy...7,although your opinions are not easy to understand clearly(seems like Latin to me,a bit),but at least it's reasonable and logical. it shows you are not a absolut brutal guy. ;)

t092, thanks for the compliment, players like yourself who have been persistent all round long, living far away from support from other WTO players for the majority of the reset, fighting when you have the ability to take back cities is notable.

;offtopic It's awesome to see alliances shaken up a lot this reset, Laoma and lmylls in misfits, lots of traditional 3rd players moved around to different alliances, and new players on the top of the player charts.

Whatever happens after back to back rounds of scandals, at least it appears that we're making progress.

agreed i think it is awesome to see players playing in new alliances for a change, even if they go back next game, it is nice to see them mixing it up.
i must say i have 2 i didnt expect to have and it has been great. sometimes there maybe a language problem or misunderstanding but it all works out great in the end. def worth the time to get to know others in the game :)

gave my have had its probs with players, but the good far out weights the bad

Double post:What I want right now is more ways of earning geos. Through minigames for example. Make it fun to earn geos. Jewelling is for startup and emergency.

Possibly off topic, but I believe this is the key to making GEWar a more light hearted and fun place to be. At present, all of the ways to earn additional geos cause moaning by people, be it donations to charity or jewelling, people will moan one way or another. However with some of the fun ways to earn geos, like DOND used to be, some will still moan but at least the rest of us will have fun in the process of making some useful geos.

GEWar is taken too seriously, some fun areas would definitely help counter this I think.


Carach's Bank idea?
Yes I saw that. Yes it's a good idea. I have another idea that involves a percentage, controlled by the alliance leader, to go into a pool that can be sent to any member of the alliance. (ex: 5% of your daily goes into a bank and then the leader can send supporting geos to people in need).

Inter-Alliance Transfers?
Not really a good idea. Easily exploitable and it helps the large alliances a lot more then the small alliances. I prefer a "buddy list" of sorts. Where you can send transfers to up to 5 players. Not sure how to avoid exploiting that yet. Maybe do something like HB Moves where you can remove people from the list but it costs a decent amount to do so.

The problem with alliance banks is that they could still be used to transfer geos between farming accounts and legit accounts, it would just require the alliance leader to be in on the scam.

Personally, and this ones going to be unpopular, it is my opinion that the only way that bank transfers could be allowed without it being widely exploited is if players were required to pay real money for the feature, both for sending and receiving geos. No real money paid, you can't receive or send geos, simple.

Like I said, I know that will be massively unpopular, but unless real money is involved then people will always exploit the feature, especially if it only costs geos. I would even go as far as to say it should be the case that a player should have a minimum 6 month donatorship plus then transfers cost X amount extra for 1 year. Afterall, if you're cheating to gain geos, why wouldn't you be willing to pay some of those "free" geos in order to be able to use farming accounts? Furthermore, even if real money was required and you could just pay for a short-term, say 1 month, transfer ability for a cheaper price, many would abuse that too which is why it should be a 6 month donatorship minimum plus X amount extra real money for 1 year of transfers.

Won't be popular, not saying it should be done, just saying it's the only way to truly reduce the exploitation of any transfer feature, i.e. Make people part with their hard earned cash and they'll think twice before cheating.

I still think the best way is to make no bank access with out value.

It worked fine but people complained cause they would loose their cities and not log in for a week.

I still think the best way is to make no bank access with out value.

It worked fine but people complained cause they would loose their cities and not log in for a week.

Yeah, I thought at the time and still think now that it is a good way, and potentially the only solution without requiring people to pay real money. It was unpopular because it encouraged zeroing your enemy constantly. Fighting battles? Zeroing your enemy? In a war game? Ludicrous! haha. That said though, it isn't necessarily the best solution when it comes to other topics such as new player and small alliance retention (which were concerns I voiced previously), and it can still be abused if the farming account has some time devoted to it occasionally.

Maybe a combination of a minimum donatorship period, i.e. 6 months, and the value requirement could be a route forward?

It might work again PB now that we have no marketplace also, it means that some are not now able to get so rich from the market as they were previously, thus making it impossible for others to ever compete.