Now that Gewar Economy is about finished, I thought I'd give donators a little extra. They now have a few extra statistics. You can't do much with them though, but they are the ground for more statistics(like battles outside cities and homebases and inside homebases etc). The statistics are for donators only and can be found at www.gewar.net/war/stats.php (http://www.gewar.net/war/stats.php)

Gewar Economy means that in our world, economy goes well if there are lots of wars. That means people spend money to buy and upgrade armies...buying nuke shields and walls. If commerce goes well, the treasury also does better. So that means spending a lot of money on resources. It's good to buy lots of those, and hopefully spend those earned geos.

Because if people start saving, it goes down. The interest paid only costs money. Also DOND money and Games For Geos cost money.

But upkeep cost for example bring in some good cash again.

Now with this, the gewar police and me can influence economy. They can choose to upgrade or downgrade resource conversions for example. If economy goes well, you earn more geos(and ofcourse so does your enemy). If people keep on saving and there aren't a lot of wars, economy will go down and so will resources. Although ofcourse upgrading resources can also influence battles in a positive way.

At this moment, due to DOND/Games For Geos and the fact we are early in this round, we speak of a recession :p

Nice new feature. It adds a little twist to everything.

Thank you DOND players for putting us in the hole... :p

Ah I think in the end it will straighten out. It's already going up, even though the treasury had to pay the bankers debt. It's up 70k geos since yesterday, and the banker is down almost 40k geos. That's 30k up in 24 hours. And commerce also went up about 10k. Commerce pays tax to the treasury, so the bigger commerce gets, the more treasury gets every day. The more there is to spend on players.

Yes nice thing that the donators can enjoy :)
Thanx Luke

What do commerce and treasury geos mean exactly?

The treasury is the treasure department of the gewar government. This is the key. This has to go up really. The more it goes up, the more players will gain in resources and games for geos etc. Treasury is also resonsible for armies. You buy them from the treasury. Upkeep and upgrading also goes into the treasury. City tax is paid from the treasury.

The commerce is the shopping you guys do. When buying walls, resources etc. Commerce has to pay taxes to the treasury. Also when the Banker(games for geos, dond etc) goes under -100,000, it pays the debts from the treasury again.

Eventually also treasury goes down if people only save up by banking. Because the interest also eventually goes out of the treasury.

At this moment, even though treasury is under 0, it's pretty stable. Which means that there aren't a lot of wars, but economy hasn't stopped. People might be saving, but haven't got that much in the bank yet. If they have more, I'm hoping they spend more. We'll see how that works out.

Sort of to put it in a nut shell, this is how I interpertted it, the commerce deals with all of the city taxes, resources and store items such as nukes. Where as the treasury deals with the army side of payments.

I am pretty sure that is right... :o

*EDIT: I just saw Luke's post before mine, never mind what I said. :o :angel

very nice luke... im just a little confused about commerce and treasury like thomas

EDIT : nvm i see u answered his question now :p

Well i could've simplified it and make treasury and commerce 1 and the same. But one dimension would then fall. It will never be realistic, because if it's realistic then war would harm the economy more, and we don't want that in a wargame ofcourse. So it's the other way around.

By creating those 2, I have the most out of the most common 4 factors of real life:
the people and their purses(you), the commerce(shops and everything you need for economy to get your money rolling in a circle), the banks, and the government(state treasury) which eventually is responsible on how the rest is doing and decides how much taxes you pay or gain. And all those have to be tied together to get a circle of geos. In order to get real inflation/deflation(which ofcourse will be expanded).

ok so will that change the city income too depending on how much the commerce and treasury have?

All this sounds great, Luke! ;bravo

Yes. It will change city income, upkeep costs and resource conversion rates for jewels/diamonds/cotton/oil. But because there wasn't a single formula I could think of that is foulproof, it will be done by hand. I created a simple menu for gewar police(and myself and huxy) to alter it whenever they feel like it. The menu just states how economy is doing, gives them the ability to change it. They can make more geos for players if economy is doing good, or make it harder when economy goes down. Though I expect in a few days it will be upgraded as economy is going up at the moment, even though its under 0.

ah kk thx :) ;ipunk

On one extra note....it might be smart to from time to time keeping an eye on those stats. If you see treasury going up really, you might not want to convert your resources right away. There is a chance that the convertion rates will go up pretty soon then.

Visa versa if you see it going down then quickly convert all your resources and get rid of them at a good price.

Now only to see how it plays out and check if it's stable enough to tie to the stockmarket.

So, the economy factor does include a twist. Almost like the stock-market, where you want to pull out your resources at the highest amount the treasury will most likely hit, or at least when it is at a good conversion rate.

I am beginning to understand its effects now. :)

Hahaha when a lot people see the economy dropping and convert immediately the economy will drop even more! Economy crash! :crazy

Hahaha when a lot people see the economy dropping and convert immediately the economy will drop even more! Economy crash! :crazy

Haha. I don't think this economy will be able to crash seeing as though the police will be able to control how everything goes. But, most people probably won't think about going to look at the economy when they convert, since most people need money at a certain time. But for the slect players who are active and care, I think it will make a difference.....

But for the slect players who are active and care, I think it will make a difference.....

that's why we have a starchy in our alliance, he will draw up something and tell us when is the best time to convert etc :cheer

that's why we have a starchy in our alliance, he will draw up something and tell us when is the best time to convert etc :cheer

Oh nice lucky you guys haha. Or he could sell it to players in the game...... :)

one little doubt...

How the city industry affects the economy?
Because you said the city upkeep will be paid by treasury.
Industry is a way to increase the economy, but it also generates geos for you, so treasury will have to pay the geos generated by industry? If so, it sounds a bit weird...

EDIT: hmmm, by the way, someone reduced the cotton and diamond conversion rate... :(

I think someone was testing. As at the moment treasury is going in the plus every 5 minutes, so it's not a recession. GIve those people a break too, as they have no idea themselves how everything works :p. I changed it back right now to make sure we don't get a full protest against gewar economy out here :p


As for your doubt: if you read my post I said it's the other way around of real life :p. Because in gewar we ofcourse don't have all instruments of real life. But we have to have a circle of geos. And it has to be the other way around because otherwise war for example will decrease economy and we don't want that. So not clockwise, but anti-clockwise.

this is nice luke, but useless.

thanks for this anyways..

Now that Gewar Economy is about finished, I thought I'd give donators a little extra. They now have a few extra statistics. You can't do much with them though, but they are the ground for more statistics(like battles outside cities and homebases and inside homebases etc).
Everything what Luke does makes sense. ;)

Well the gewar economy isn't useless. They are to serve the players actually, and make it easier to change convertion rates.

The stats are pretty useless right now :p. They are just for those that wish a little inside info. But like I said, those stats are only the basics of more donator-stats(as explained in an earlier post) which are coming.

And who knows...perhaps those stats can be used to predict if the convertion rates will go up or down.

*edit: i see thomas already said it... :p

Well the gewar economy isn't useless. They are to serve the players actually, and make it easier to change convertion rates.

The stats are pretty useless right now :p. They are just for those that wish a little inside info. But like I said, those stats are only the basics of more donator-stats(as explained in an earlier post) which are coming.

And who knows...perhaps those stats can be used to predict if the convertion rates will go up or down.

*edit: i see thomas already said it... :p
can be also used to predict what the army total is in recently taken over cities :p

good statistics but no use to me yet

Good thing the thread isn't aimed to be about the statistics :p. Boy would that be a drag then :D

The stats were only thrown in here to give a start on what some asked as 'donator extra statistics'. They were thrown in here because they also show something about the new feature 'Gewar Economy'(what this thread is aimed at). As I already said myself you can't do much with the statistics yet, except for some minor predictions.

In the long run, it wilbe a deciding factor when you should or shouldn't convert your resources. Since you could leave your resources uncoverted and wait until the the conversion rate is high and then cash in all your resources for a bigger profit. This is totally useFUL. For those people who just convert their resources, they won't get as much as those who wait and see what is going to happen. :)

Hey, I was under the impression that JOKOSR gave me a donation for 1 year... and I had it before the reset, it disapeared after....was this a reset only gift?

Hey, I was under the impression that JOKOSR gave me a donation for 1 year... and I had it before the reset, it disapeared after....was this a reset only gift?

This is a little off topic, so if you wouldn't mind, post a ticket in the help desk instead for this and someone will fix the problem. After you post your ticket, I will delete the post.

Thanks. :offtopic2

How about a link to this data on our main page? Under Financial maybe?

How about a link to this data on our main page? Under Financial maybe?

There is already a link to get to the statistics, it is under the links up in the left-hand corner for latest activity and Newspaper. Its the last one.

But, it would be nice to see a link maybe in the financial overview page.

I see the economy is growing very fast. The treasury increase about 50% in the last couple of days. Naoaw x TLI and their war have been helping a lot the worldwide economy... ;woop

I see the economy is growing very fast. The treasury increase about 50% in the last couple of days. Naoaw x TLI and their war have been helping a lot the worldwide economy... ;woop

Thx! :) Dont worry im sure we could put those extra geos that ur helping us make to a good use ;) :p

Hey, I was under the impression that JOKOSR gave me a donation for 1 year... and I had it before the reset, it disapeared after....was this a reset only gift?

It was a 1 month subscription, not 1 year.

What happened with treasury????
It was going pretty well, almost -10K, then suddenly it went to -114K!!!
The banker is also very nice, with a positive number... should influence to increase the treasury, but it went down.

What did change in economy to have such a big crash????

(time to buy GMC stocks??)

Nice addition, well done! Any chance of adding in a 7/10/30 day graph using some free charting software like ChartDirector http://www.advsofteng.com/ ? Or implementing something like http://www.ashishkasturia.com/tutorials/?ID=4&page=1

Having the stats there is good, but without keeping a manual log of the past, it is kind of useless as how do you know what trend it is in, ie going up or down?

Still great addition, good to see new features being added! Good enough to impress me enough to just order another 6mth subscription :D Just in the nick of time :D

EDIT: While on the subject of charts, how about stock charts as well? Or are there already, I never keep a city long enough to invest in them anyway :D

EDIT: While on the subject of charts, how about stock charts as well? Or are there already, I never keep a city long enough to invest in them anyway :D
Pretty sure there are still some active stock graphs in the script library (http://www.gewar.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=29&page=1&sort=lastpost&order=&pp=20&daysprune=-1)

What happened with treasury????
It was going pretty well, almost -10K, then suddenly it went to -114K!!!
The banker is also very nice, with a positive number... should influence to increase the treasury, but it went down.

What did change in economy to have such a big crash????

(time to buy GMC stocks??)

im pretty sure it's cuz the Total Banker/Games Geos was down 100k so the treasury paid for it

WTO and 3rd will not worry about their economy.
We have a lot of wars everyday. :lgewar

WTO and 3rd will not worry about their economy.
We have a lot of wars everyday. :lgewar

well, we have basically been helping out the economy for everyone else that has been saving. Good to see NAOAW and TLI mixing things up. ;charge

Good to see NAOAW and TLI mixing things up. ;charge

We aim to please :D

Pretty sure there are still some active stock graphs in the script library (http://www.gewar.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=29&page=1&sort=lastpost&order=&pp=20&daysprune=-1)

Yeah but why not incorporate it into the game instead of being a 3rd party add-on?

Yeah but why not incorporate it into the game instead of being a 3rd party add-on?

You have no idea :D. Nobody does by the way(besides Tohann, that created it). I don't think even GB or Huxy knew it's already there, but you guys don't have a link to it yet(nobody does) :D. As Tohann created it, I'll leave it upto him to announce in another thread when he feels it's totally finished.

ooOOOoOOOooOOOOooOOooo cool more features, cool! Is there a reason that the "new" features that are being worked on are kept secret? I reckon it would be nice to see a list of what is being worked on, maybe just a name, not a full explanation of it, but just a name and ETA of implementation, it would give us players somehting to look forward to!

Still keep up the great work guys!

Perhaps I can. I have to think about which ones then. I don't want to announce features that are later cancelled because it didn't work out.

As to economy. It was going great for a couple of days, but it seems the commerce is hurting quite a bit right now. It's logic that treasury went down as it had to pay for the banker, but commerce was going great before.

Perhaps I can. I have to think about which ones then. I don't want to announce features that are later cancelled because it didn't work out.

You see I reckon that the list you put out is not a definate "This IS what is being put into the game", moreso a, "This is what is being worked on." list. Also it would be great for new people in the game to see what has tried to be worked on but ended up either too hard or just not possible.

It would show just how hard you guys do work on putting new things or fixing old things in the game! Also you never know, if any web coders are playing and see the list and see something they could easily do it might prompt them to put thier hands up. You could also offer contracts, do web work for geos!

Actually one or two years ago there was a thread with a summary of feature request where the crew would then add labels like "considered", "being worked", "not possible", "never", "postponed", etc.
The downside of such a list of course is that it has to be maintained.

The downside of such a list of course is that it has to be maintained.

If all that stopping it from being maintained is a person to put some time into it, I would do it?

I don't think maintaining it would be a problem, we have enough mods that can help with that and I would gladly do it :)

I don't think maintaining it would be a problem, we have enough mods that can help with that and I would gladly do it :)
This? http://www.gewar.net/forums/showpost.php?p=22182&postcount=1

Yeah it would be great to see an update of this list.

I don't think maintaining it would be a problem, we have enough mods that can help with that and I would gladly do it :)

Yes, we could help maintain it, but we don't really know what is in progress and things that are being tried. So we would have to be updated on that kind of stuff.

LOL that list is sooooo old...
If we get informed of what's happening I will update it for everyone to see :)

Well cant be that hard, there are only 2 people working on the code?

Ok from the top of my head:

1) Gewar economy (finishing it)
2) Army interception (donator only)
3) Uranium (and combining with nukes) (perhaps donator only)
4) Marketplace(also for selling nukes to those not being able to build it themselves)
5) Weapon(or special army) against either wall or industry
6) Defense(never total defense though) against natural disasters
7) short range missiles against other cities(they never kill 100% of what is inside the city)
8) more stats(like attacks outside homebases and cities) (edit: also almost complete)
9) stockmarket graphic (which is complete I believe, but thats upto the creator Tohann)
10) Tying stockmarket with real gewar events
11) there was more...if I remember I'll post
I must say that fortune is not by my side though. Everytime I seem to have a day off(like today) a bug is found that needs to be adressed urgently. And not talking about long-time bugs, but sudden new ones.

I love 2 and 8, can't wait for it all to be implemented ;woop

Great, Luke! :)

what about timmies home base stealage??

Homebase stealage was cancelled for now. Reason was that even behind the screens we couldn't get a unanymous vote on whether to do it or not. And even those that said 'yes', all had different ideas. Eventually, some said, to make it work without problems it would have to be soooo complex. They lined out exactly how, but that got too confusing for little ol' me so I pushed it forward again till someone lines out a good solid idea for it without faults. Something that can be done. Timmies idea was simple, but some crewmembers looked into possible future problems and from there on it got too big.

what about timmies home base stealage??

My radar is tingling.

And it was never too complicated. Only 3 rules needed!

Gah, I shouldn't even try.

Although as a final kick to the shins might I just remark that the economy and statistics bits seems a very intricate, well thought out and interesting system that in the end doesn't really affect anyone?

I'll go lurk in the shadows once more..

Call my name thrice into polished silver..

In the end it does. It affects the city taxes, upkeep costs, resource convertions, jewels, and even the stockmarket.

But I also found a bug(well haven't found it yet as I'm too lazy to do anything about it right now), but the bankedgeos somehow was way too high. I did a SUM in the database, and it was 2 million lower. I"ll look for that tomorrow.

*edit: btw, I said in my post your idea was simple Timmetie....and as from the start( :D ) I agreed with the idea. But some smart crewmembers looked into potential problems and from that the idea kept having to be expanded and changed and in the end it was too confusing for me to even understand what they wanted me to do anymore...as it made me really chaotic just reading it, I just cancelled it for now. Maybe in the near future again, as I do still like the idea.

*edit: btw, I said in my post your idea was simple Timmetie....and as from the start( :D ) I agreed with the idea. But some smart crewmembers looked into potential problems and from that the idea kept having to be expanded and changed and in the end it was too confusing for me to even understand what they wanted me to do anymore...as it made me really chaotic just reading it, I just cancelled it for now. Maybe in the near future again, as I do still like the idea.


I think that happens on like ever idea. Everything gets expanded and made more complicated. Sorry... :blush2

But, ideas are still good, seeing as though it gets people thinking of other things that may be easier.

Expanded could be good. More complicated might not be good.

When trying to expand ideas, you have to do it from the point of view of the programmer, even if you can't program. You have to think if it's possible. In the case of homebase stealage eventually it became impossible. Yeah it's possible if you are a brilliant programmer that does this for his fulltime job. 2 things that I am not.

Expanded could be good. More complicated might not be good.

When trying to expand ideas, you have to do it from the point of view of the programmer, even if you can't program. You have to think if it's possible. In the case of homebase stealage eventually it became impossible. Yeah it's possible if you are a brilliant programmer that does this for his fulltime job. 2 things that I am not.
the total geos dropped aby a million. why?

Check the post in te top of this thread.

But I also found a bug(well haven't found it yet as I'm too lazy to do anything about it right now), but the bankedgeos somehow was way too high. I did a SUM in the database, and it was 2 million lower. I"ll look for that tomorrow.


Somewhere it's calculating double. I'll give you an example what could be, not saying it is:

You put money from your usable fundings into the bank, and instead of just being added once into the database of the economy, it's done twice. So you double it.

Now you might ask 'why don't you just do a sum of all banked geos in a cron every 5 minutes?'. That was because I don't want it to take my own geos, or that of games master or huxy for example, in account. Just those of real players. And their behaviour.

Oil went up as some might've noticed. So wondering why they are hanging onto it? FOr some reason people are saving up on oil, even though they can get a better price for it now.


Because if they check, ever since oil and jewels went up(i have no idea who upgraded them, and that doesn't matter...it was a fun choice), commerce is going down. So it's a matter of time before someone decides that oil should be worth less again.

See....here it becomes important to check the statistics. See commerce dropping while you can get a better price for oil....that is your moment to sell your oil. By holding onto it, you aren't doing the economy a favour either. If everyone sells, the commerce has enough oil to make a proffit, so thats good also. Wait longer and it will just drop again.

Treasury is going up, but will soon have to help commerce and the bank.

Hey luke,

Still some things unclear for me about the economy. So I'll put my doubts here:

Is this right?

Positive Influence on the Treasury

- When you buy/upgrade troops and the money goes to the treasure
- The money you spend paying for your troops goes to the treasury
- When you buy nuke shields and walls the money goes to the treasury

Negative Influence on the Treasury

- The interest paid
- DOND and Games For Geos
- The money we receive from City tax is paid from the treasury
- The interest of our banked money comes from the treasury

But, Wich things influence each part of the budget?

Banker/Games Geos:

- Prizes paid on dond, lottery...
- Anything else?

Treasury Geos:

-
-

Commerce Geos:

- You said comerce pays taxes to the treasury, but how much? Is a percentage?
- When we buy walls, resources, etc


How's the relation beetween them? I know when one is up, the other go up, but is a percentage or what?

thanks.

bump** none answer it? as i got a lot things still unclear.....

I thought I answerred most of these, but in the other thread about economy. They were almost at the same time created.

Shouldnt the ressources conversion rate go up now?? There is alot of war so the Treasury is getting higher now.

Total Treasury Geos:122,115.16

Almost...but check commerce and banker...treasury has to pay for those pretty soon. After that is paid and still above 0, then it's going well.


But still somewhere I'm missing something. How can commerce keep on declining? Maybe it has to do with most not converting resources right now?

Maybe it has to do with most not converting resources right now?

I didn't convert for a few days, but i am converting again now regurlarly... so it might be that others isn't and waiting for the best oppertunity to convert!

Still I'm missing some ingredients of the economy. Hope players can come up with more ideas to both what economy has to pay for, and how it gains money.

hmmm ya i was wondering too why commerce wasnt going up. Maybe it is ressources like u say. Cuz i dont convert them now so im sure im not the only one.

if GamesMaster payouts for the lottery are going to negatively impact the economy, shouldnt the lottery ticket money be directly deposited to an account where the payouts come from? Where does lottery input become a positive for the economy?

Where does lottery input become a positive for the economy?

I dont think it does :(

Lottery input does not affect economy. Because basically all the game does is share the money players already have. The payout is from the pockets of the players themselves. All they do is throw it in a big pot altogether and draw who gets it. So it can't affect economy.

Games Masters payout won't have an affect on it either I think. Some will bank, which will make it go a little more negative, but the payouts will also mean more war and more buying, which is positive. So that should remain balanced.

How about a small surtax on player to player transfers? 3% or so would add up.

I've increased the value of jewels for those of you wanting a cash boost!

Lottery input does not affect economy. Because basically all the game does is share the money players already have. The payout is from the pockets of the players themselves. All they do is throw it in a big pot altogether and draw who gets it. So it can't affect economy.

Games Masters payout won't have an affect on it either I think. Some will bank, which will make it go a little more negative, but the payouts will also mean more war and more buying, which is positive. So that should remain balanced.

But the money to pay the winnings comes from the banker, do the geos from lottery entries go directly in to the bankers account also?

Nope. But after I wrote my previous message, and before yours, I realised that and was already working on it :). Thanks. I did hope to have fixed that without anyone finding out so I never needed to explain I never thought of that before :D

Well now diamonds are up but not the other ones :(

lol. I think that someone from the GEPolice did that on purpose. And would be a thought through trick also. Could be accidental, but I myself would've chosen for diamonds also. As those are the ones that were being converted anyway, and that means it might eventually push players to convert their cotton and oil anyway...even for a lower price.

Well now diamonds are up but not the other ones :(

No such thing as a free lunch though - a bit of digging would have paid for itself - a couple of minutes left!! Convert the remaining jewels quickly!

Not trying to stir the pot here - I am really digging the economy thing. That being said, it seems that something is amiss. Currently there is almost no reson to convert resources, no reason to jewel and it is crazy to build a large army because the upkeep is astranomical.

Maybe I'm dense, but I can't get my head around the cause and effect aspect. Can I get an outline, and some specific examples of the cause and effect aspects of economy? Here are some specific questions:

When I buy a 50k army, what aspects of the economy does it effect?
When I convert resources what does it effect?

There are other - But basically I want to know how my game play can effect the economy. Really. If I buy a 1M troop army are resource values going to skyrocket? Or will nothing happen?

I'm going to have to agree with laevus here...there's a decent amount of fighting going on in game, fairly evenly spread out between five or six alliances right now, and the economy is still tanking. I see no reason why the game should require a constant state of heightened attack in order for everything to be "balanced." If anything, I'm beginning to think that the mild periods of fighting that are similar to the current state of the game are ones where people fight but still save. So yes, in theory the economy should suffer anytime anyone anywhere is saving, but that in itself is not good logic. When the entire world is saving, then yes, the economy should suffer. But when there is active fights going on, the economy should at least be holding steady. Maybe not improving, but definitely not getting worse like it is at the moment.

Maybe time to try putting like a 1.1 or 1.2 multiplier in on some of the factors that help the economy perhaps? Like buying troops, perhaps? Not upkeep, though, because people pay upkeep regardless of fighting. Anyway, just tossing some ideas out there...

<big sigh>

13M ;geo in the bank, let's say 250 active players=average bank of 52K ;geo

that is about 1500 ;geo/day of interest x 250 players or 375K ;geo 'free' money infused into the game every day from the bank

City value is 4,4BN :geo or ~46k ;geo additional 'free' money

If we assume that yesterday was average for DOND, theres another 'free' 75K ;geo infused.

Plus infused monies from resources

We're talking, just from above, without resources, 500K ;geo/day added to the game

troop expense for 3,368,655? 31.5K ;geo

about 6.3% of what goes out

So I guess my point is that if you want the economy to flourish, is it too much to ask that instead of everyone sit on a ton of money that at least some of it gets spent?

I guess ideally, the economy would relate to the player specifically, hence the more active an individual was, the better their personal economy would be.

Those that sat and saved would see their interest/conversion rates and city income fall while their troop costs skyrocketed

I'm sure that would be a programming nightmare :o

You already know that I want you to have my baby GB. That is a great breakdown, even though it doesn't answer my ???s. There is one minor error - 3.3M troops cost 10x what you said.

Look - Today - as I type this - The upkeep on a 100k troop army is pushing 3k geos per day. I gotta kill these suckers off quick. You want me to spend? It COSTS too much to spend. I'm just trying to understand why. I buy armies and fight almost every single day. I think I am one of the most active players this round in terms of attacks. But I almost NEED to make sure that my armies are dead by the end of the day just to break even each day. Here's my breakdown:

Revenue - say 2200/day since resource values are in the tank.
Subtract 100 per day for resource cost
Buy a couple of 10k armies - subtract 1500
pay upkeep on a couple of 10k armies - subtract 575

So - assuming I have the average bank. If I buy TWO measly 10k armies every day and end up keeping them alive for 24 hours I would LOSE geos every single day. If I buy more than 20k troops every day then my bank balance starts decreasing. And you want me to spend? I do spend, but I CAN'T spend more than that and be competetive. This is what I am trying to understand...

Bleh - I guess it comes down to this: I'm doing my part - what are all of you other people doing? ;bxing You know who you are.

GEWAR NEWS FLASH: Break even on troops/revenue is appx 20k soldiers per day! Are you breaking even?

And you want me to spend? I do spend, but I CAN'T spend more than that and be competetive. This is what I am trying to understand...


yeah this has crossed my mind too. oh well its a good experiment to see if it works.

The economy is a nice new feature but how it's going now it just sucks. The fighting alliances are just getting punished by alliances that don't do anything. You can even buy a 20K armie anymore because you will not earn enough to hold it for a day. I think the alliances that fight a lot should profit and have a better economy and alliance that only sit and save should pay more.

The economy is a nice new feature but how it's going now it just sucks. The fighting alliances are just getting punished by alliances that don't do anything. You can even buy a 20K armie anymore because you will not earn enough to hold it for a day. I think the alliances that fight a lot should profit and have a better economy and alliance that only sit and save should pay more.

I think thats the ideal and the initial reasons behind the economy. I mean we can always attack the ones that hurt the economy to help it again...haha. I'm not sure if this kind of action was the intention. It may be difficult to program many economies or atleast 2 types, one for fighters, one for savers. This is a good starting point and experiment for Luke...the good thing is its good/bad for everyone, so if we are all in the same boat its not affecting the balance of the game.

But it is effecting game balance. It dramatically benefits the saving alliance(s) right now because they can break the backs of the fighting alliances without lifting a finger.

Maybe I should leave WTO alone for a week, assemble a team of 10 volunteers and right this wrong. :cheer

of course it is effecting everyone. If players can't even buy 20K anymore without loosing geo's no one will fight anymore or only 1000 men battles. I doubt that is good for the economy.

Maybe I should leave WTO alone for a week, assemble a team of 10 volunteers and right this wrong. :cheer

could be a good experiment to see if this economy will actually be affected...

It looks more grim than it actually is. Like said yesterday, all geos paid from tickets came from the treasury, but nothing went into it. That was a mistake. So all lotteries ever since economy started should be put back in treasury. And I think that's a lot. I'll do that later today.

Yeah so I dropped a 0
Sue me

Point is you are still looking at it as a way to break even whereas the economy will only truly flourish when there is more coming in than going out. ie, when the majority of the players are more concerned with warring and less concerned about how big their bank balance is.

It doesnt take much, using todays numbers, if each of the 250 active players bought 8K troops a day (2M total) then the economy would be at 'break even' and then reasonably able to increase conversion rates or lower upkeep costs.

So basically its all the saver's alliances fault...

Logically yes. Also a bit our fault. Whenever it peaks above 0, instead of let it grow, we raise it to give players a bonus. And then give it all away really quick.

I think, if you raise it slowly, people might convert their resources, and therefor commerce won't go into the red. Commerce could be above 0 then, giving interest to the treasury, and then keep the circle going in the right direction.

What I need to find is stability here. When it started, it was stable. Especially commerce. But since some time, commerce is only going down. That's why I said I'm missing something. Somewhere geos are dissapearing.

This seems doable. I bought mine today - How 'bout you suckas?

It doesnt take much, using todays numbers, if each of the 250 active players bought 8K troops a day (2M total) then the economy would be at 'break even' and then reasonably able to increase conversion rates or lower upkeep costs.

This seems doable. I bought mine today - How 'bout you suckas?
my whole alliance and tli and wto and naow has been doing it im sure : D

Put the nukes back at 3k where they should be..NOT AT 8K..players nuke a few more cities...make a few more enemies and thus more fighting..if not i will keep saving...and if a reset happens before i use up all these geos so what..you are making the game this way.... saving game instead of a fighting game...Who was it that decided nuking was bad for the game anyways and force the cost to 8k anyways?? And if you change them back..and ya ya..i know your not..but it would help the whole game..Just ask Yome..

Put the nukes back at 3k where they should be..NOT AT 8K..players nuke a few more cities...make a few more enemies and thus more fighting..if not i will keep saving...and if a reset happens before i use up all these geos so what..you are making the game this way.... saving game instead of a fighting game...Who was it that decided nuking was bad for the game anyways and force the cost to 8k anyways?? And if you change them back..and ya ya..i know your not..but it would help the whole game..Just ask Yome..

I agree 100% on that. I did nuke 1 city this round and it costed me much more than the guy i nuked. It was fun but too bad we cant do it as much as we did. Nuking was a big part of the game and it switched cities from alliances, made more war, even made war more interesting. That part of the game was partially taken away by making the nukes much more expensive. Maybe if the nukes would of never been 3k before it would of been normal but now that we've experienced that fun, i think it should continue. I dont really find a reason why nukes are that expensive.

Now im going off topic and sry about that but it was a good time to put in that thought :o. But as jokosr said, im sure with nukes at 3k it would help the economy since even the less active players would use there geos if they dont have the time to send armies. Nuking a city is not always worth it but it dosnt take time and its easy :)

Nuking a city is not always worth it but it dosnt take time and its easy :)

That's exactly what we don't want a nuke to be! It shouldn't be easy to just quickly nuke 30cities or nuke zero an entire alliance :) Happened to much last round and a nuke should be something special...

Actually if nuke prices were dropped then alliances would shield instead, therefore not enabling you to kill greater numbers of troops, it would just turn out the same way as it is now.

But buying shields puts money back in the game thus making the enconomy better, correct??? Buying Nukes puts money back into the game thus making the economy better correct??

That's exactly what we don't want a nuke to be! It shouldn't be easy to just quickly nuke 30cities or nuke zero an entire alliance :) Happened to much last round and a nuke should be something special...
so? the game was like that and it had many more players then
its way more fun without all these restrictions

Cities with nuke shields make great targets for attacks, too.

My opinion is...

When the society is in recession, the government spend money to get activity. So make it here. Rise all the prices of resources and city taxes that people will buy more troops and attack more. And then, maybe the treasury gets negative for sometime, but it will grow after. Simple as that!!!


Try it. Feed the people that want to fight with geos and they will fight more.

In real economy people only spend when they have money to do it or easy credit.

raise the city taxes and the prices of resources, and to help a little raise also the ammount we pay to buy resources to 100 geos, so the treasury would get more geos also.

roberto.

P.S.: Everybody know that people wait till they and their alliance get 60k to go to war, so help everybody reach there.

P.S.: Everybody know that people wait till they and their alliance get 60k to go to war, so help everybody reach there.

so maybe we gotta re-think interest again :D or am I opening another can of worms :rock

W_African,

lol. Man, this is anoooooother discussion!!! :)

If the interest doesn't have a limit, some people would save forever, until the last day of reset! :)

and what about the economy? What you think?

cheers,

roberto.

There are only a few alliances that want to get to 60K before they start a war. I doubt that was the case for AI, 3rd, WTO, NAOAW and TLI. The easiest way to settle this is these alliances to stop fighting each other and go after the saving alliances. Then everyone will be at war and where done :)

There are only a few alliances that want to get to 60K before they start a war. I doubt that was the case for AI, 3rd, WTO, NAOAW and TLI. The easiest way to settle this is these alliances to stop fighting each other and go after the saving alliances. Then everyone will be at war and where done :)

awesome idea Hypie... maybe we should all go after a 'saving' alliance ;woop

There are only a few alliances that want to get to 60K before they start a war. I doubt that was the case for AI, 3rd, WTO, NAOAW and TLI. The easiest way to settle this is these alliances to stop fighting each other and go after the saving alliances. Then everyone will be at war and where done :)

very true Hypie, im sure it would help the economy since Savers would be forced to Fight. I will really consider that.

lol, that would be interesting....

by the way, does the economy affects the army upkeep cost? Because it is actually so high that, in my case, it is limiting my willing to fight. To build a big army, to travel half world (14-19 hours) with actual cost is not funny.... lol

Better if I don´t buy troops, and let the soldiers rest in their cities...

We're playing around with army costs. Upgraded them to see what happens. It actually did work for the economy. Now it can probably slowly be downgraded again. Still have to fix some extra stuff.

lol, that would be interesting....

by the way, does the economy affects the army upkeep cost? Because it is actually so high that, in my case, it is limiting my willing to fight. To build a big army, to travel half world (14-19 hours) with actual cost is not funny.... lol

Better if I don´t buy troops, and let the soldiers rest in their cities...

yup i agree as AI is fighting Naoaw i have to travel over 12 hours to go to Americas and that's the only place i can fight atm :(... Its too expensive.

It looks like the treasury is becoming millionaire... :)

Isn't the time to upgrade de city income instead of raise and fall the value of the resources all the time?

cheers,

roberto.

Eh I guess city income could go up again, judging by the economy. How the hell did economy grow this fast? Are there substantially more wars out there these days?

I know of 1 war that started today :)

Yeah, and it only ever seems to spike like that when we go to war...funny how that works. :angel

it has been a very, very busy few days for at least 4 alliances.

kudos to TLI and natives for mixing it up, and to 3rd World and WTO for keeping it going.

resources need to go up. Theres 3 wars going on atm

kudos to TLI and natives for mixing it up, and to 3rd World and WTO for keeping it going.

for sure...and to AI and NAOW for keeping things interesting. AI was stealing NAOW's attention and we got bored...

Nah, nothing happening, just boring normal day :D

for sure...and to AI and NAOW for keeping things interesting. AI was stealing NAOW's attention and we got bored...
yeah.. you know. being attacked at the same time by 3 big alliances, and a hand full of indies is not too easy to deal...Maybe now we can focus in only 2 big alliances and the hand full of indies... ;)

Eh I guess city income could go up again, judging by the economy. How the hell did economy grow this fast? Are there substantially more wars out there these days?
check our score ;)

yeah.. you know. being attacked at the same time by 3 big alliances, and a hand full of indies is not too easy to deal...Maybe now we can focus in only 2 big alliances and the hand full of indies... ;)

ah, this was 3rd World's life almost every reset until now. I only count AI and TLI. Who else are you guys fighting?

misfits has also been hitting us, but, they are always hitting everybody... ;)

yup, well 2 alliances fighting you wasn't exactly planned :) if it was we wouldn't have bailed...it was much more fun fighting you alone...however now it’s good to see natives spending some cash now, we can thank them for today’s good economy. Keep up all the fights...

yup, well 2 alliances fighting you wasn't exactly planned :) if it was we wouldn't have bailed...it was much more fun fighting you alone...however now it’s good to see natives spending some cash now, we can thank them for today’s good economy. Keep up all the fights...

it would be good to see your precious Africa actually challenged. I think TLI's territorial NAPs are working out greatly to their advantage. Good diplomacy work.

it would be good to see your precious Africa actually challenged. I think TLI's territorial NAPs are working out greatly to their advantage. Good diplomacy work.

thanks...mostly due to our Africa Policy!! maybe natives will provide some challenge there. although us holding this has no effect on the economy as even though we have alot of land, we continously spend by fighting.

thanks...mostly due to our Africa Policy!! maybe natives will provide some challenge there. although us holding this has no effect on the economy as even though we have alot of land, we continously spend by fighting.

yes, I am very excited to see how this turns out. glad natives is turning more active now. good work all around.

Eh I guess city income could go up again, judging by the economy. How the hell did economy grow this fast? Are there substantially more wars out there these days?


And what about army costs? It's hurting! :)

And what about army costs? It's hurting! :)
army costs are only slightly higher than after a reset and much lower now than just 24 hours ago.

army costs are only slightly higher than after a reset and much lower now than just 24 hours ago.
i have too agree troop costs seem way too high...100k troop costing 2k aday is too much...holding many cities does not equal the cost out...

And the nuke cost..8k...thats highway robbery.....have i said that in other threads??? :mad:

so:

what value of city warrants 100K troops to defend?

you would need over 200M city value to make 2000 ;geo/day city income. :rock

you also have income from:
Interest ;90
Resources :love
Investment ;bounce
Games for geos :lgewar
DOND ;bravo
Jeweling :growse

conversion rates are nice and high now too. ;soap

so:

what value of city warrants 100K troops to defend?

you would need over 200M city value to make 2000 ;geo/day city income. :rock

you also have income from:
Interest ;90
Resources :love
Investment ;bounce
Games for geos :lgewar
DOND ;bravo
Jeweling :growse

conversion rates are nice and high now too. ;soap

ok fine..but what about the high cost of nukes... i think its like 8k....did i mention this somewhere else??? ;ipunk

so:

what value of city warrants 100K troops to defend?

you would need over 200M city value to make 2000 ;geo/day city income. :rock

you also have income from:
Interest ;90
Resources :love
Investment ;bounce
Games for geos :lgewar
DOND ;bravo
Jeweling :growse

conversion rates are nice and high now too. ;soap

GB,

But the game is not planting resources or playing DOND right?

I think conversion rates should go down... and troop costs should go down either.

With high troop costs it's difficult to defend and attack.

just my opinion... I think the players don't want to fight the crew or anything like this... just give opinions on what should be better.

I think low troop costs now would bring more people buying them, to attack or protect.

Either way alot of people are adapting the current model. As I see it there has been alot of fighting regardless and so none of the proposed changes (i.e., troop cost decrease, nuke cost decrease) can be justified by saying that it will introduce more fighting...can't really get much more fighting than whats going on already with all the major alliance involved in some war bar a few smaller groups. I do see the point, its costly owning alot of cities as the income doesn't cover the troop costs for defence but we have learnt to live with it for now...I think troop costs will fluctuate though like the economy currently does.

^^ Agree!!!

Either way alot of people are adapting the current model. As I see it there has been alot of fighting regardless and so none of the proposed changes (i.e., troop cost decrease, nuke cost decrease) can be justified by saying that it will introduce more fighting...can't really get much more fighting than whats going on already with all the major alliance involved in some war bar a few smaller groups. I do see the point, its costly owning alot of cities as the income doesn't cover the troop costs for defence but we have learnt to live with it for now...I think troop costs will fluctuate though like the economy currently does.

Has there been more wars and fighting this round compared too the last game ????
I think this has been a very slow game..I still havent seen alot of alliances attacking yet....why is that??

Has there been more wars and fighting this round compared too the last game ????
I think this has been a very slow game..I still havent seen alot of alliances attacking yet....why is that??

I think there has been just as much and maybe even more... It may not seem like the case with cheap/high industry but I think it is the case. At this very moment we have 3rd, wto, tli, ai, naow, natives all involved in full blown wars. In previous rounds there was few times where I recall 6 major alliances fighting at the same time. I could be wrong and have a short memory though :)

I think there has been just as much and maybe even more... It may not seem like the case with cheap/high industry but I think it is the case. At this very moment we have 3rd, wto, tli, ai, naow, natives all involved in full blown wars. In previous rounds there was few times where I recall 6 major alliances fighting at the same time. I could be wrong and have a short memory though :)
i see daily attacks..i see 3rd with its home bases in china attacking wto daily.then wto coming back and taking back the cities...Thats not a full blown war..A full blown war is when you saved for a few weeks and everyone attacks at one time ...with hunderds or armies being sent....from one part of the world too another...this is just using up daily interest and geos won in dond....we lost alot of players so that could be the problem too...when was the last round you seen 3rd with only 28 players and no sub alliances?

yeah but people is fighting with smaller armies, many people were accustomed to do war with big armies and thus took long to save for a proper war.
there's none of that now. no big war is also no big winners or losers that last two months before a comeback.
surely it is different but let's see how it goes.

the only effective way way to fight an alliance like WTO is his way

the only effective way way to fight an alliance like WTO is his way
hummm....it will never happen......you cant write Chinese ....... ;bunny
and besides iam here too change there ways and teach them how too play while drinking beer.... :drinks :hunter so far they are playing..and iam drinking beer... :D

I think troop costs are great ;bravo ;bravo

EDIT: I also think there is way more attacks happening then this time last round... natives - fighting = WOW!! all the top alliances are attacking and that is great!

Troop costs support the attacker much more than the defender. With the costs the way they are, to properly defend cities that are attacked, you end up making negative geos daily.

currently, 100 troops costs 3.02 geos daily (which as GB said, is actually down from 24hrs ago).
last round, I remember 100 troops costing 1.49.

what I do like about upkeep, is it makes it impossible to defend more than a couple cities. So you know any player with over 10 cities is not defending them at all (if they are, then they lose geos daily from the high upkeep costs). so, what each alliance needs is more players to hold the cities to spread out the upkeep costs while maintaining a high alliance value. problem is, there aren't enough active players anymore to accomplish this.

tough times indeed.

Well - If that is the case then there should possibly be a discussion about whether or not there are too many cities in the game for the number of players :). Uh-oh...

EDIT: Well, looking at the latest activity it appears I am wrong about this. There have been ~400 people in the last week, and there are ~1300 cities. Just over 3 cities each. Are you fighting for your 3 cities?

I long for the day when a 20-30 member alliance struggles for 50 cities not because they are being constantly zeroed but rather because there are another 4-5 alliances of that same size battling on the same continent. Imagine that replicated to the whole gewar world :)

Just over 3 cities each. Are you fighting for your 3 cities?

Is that meant to be like the "It's 10:00, do you know where your children are?" statement?

I long for the day when a 20-30 member alliance struggles for 50 cities not because they are being constantly zeroed but rather because there are another 4-5 alliances of that same size battling on the same continent. Imagine that replicated to the whole gewar world :)

We used to have those days *longing*.

Well, longing is probably the right word wa and Blitz, because if the new alpha game gets instituted any time soon, the number of cities each person is going to hold will at least double, and probably more than that too.

Let's hope that's not going to happen, because that would mean another big number of players would leave which would be a disaster. I also believe the total number of cities in alpha game is lower than in beta game.

yes it is thomas... alpha doesn't have all the cities that we have over here!

Shouldnt the conversion rates go back up a bit now? The treasury has been around 300k for a few days now. I think the conversion rates should go back up at least to the normal rate.

Shouldnt the conversion rates go back up a bit now? The treasury has been around 300k for a few days now. I think the conversion rates should go back up at least to the normal rate.

And, there you go, back in the tank again... :sho

GB? :o Total Treasury Geos:1,072,153.28

seems a bit high huh?

ya i dont understand why the conversion rates went down again...

ya i dont understand why the conversion rates went down again...

me neither considering we have a ton of fighting going on right now...the economy is suppose to be based on how much spending/fighting is going on right now.

up the resources already...

or it manually? ;i02

whats up witht he army costs...ridiculous even with so many fights every day

Ressources should go down? :p

Total Treasury Geos:-1,150,552.89

It would appear. But then again there was the bug of wayyyy too many banked geos. The interest is deducted from the treasury. I put the banked geos to the correct amount and reset the treasury.

ah ok thx luke :)

how's the economy after reset?

i just got this:
Industry: 240,360, which means this city earns around 1.2 Geos extra each day in tax revenue.